Sunday, May 16, 2010

Two Comments

Here is an interesting comment I received about two months ago from a Muslim reader, on the purpose of the Burka, the full body covering for women. The article he was commenting on dealt with the notion that the burka was a sign of the failure of the West to maintain decency in its women and girls, hence the inevitability of the appearance of a totally opposing custom, one that proclaimed not only modesty, but near-anonymity of the female face and figure:

As a non-Western Muslim son of a Sunnah-observant Burqa-wearing zoologist mother,I totally concur with the author of article.I found the article while googling "Consequences of Western decadence" while writing a review of Samuel Huntington's book: Clash of Civilisations as part of a university project.

Since, we tend to think in religious terms of Islam, we view the contemporary Western decadence as the rise of the forces of Dajjaal-the Islamic equivalent of Antichrist among the non-Islamic humanity whose destiny is secularisation owing to their inherent spirtual void that can't resist the global Dajjaal movement.

Hence, Burqa is a global phenomenon because Godlessness is a global phenomenon in the globalised world. My mother didn't wear Burqa a decade ago, but when I became more devout, my mother started wearing Burqa because she knew in heart that God loves Burqa.

We see from his observations that the burka is not mandated by Islam, but is rather a choice. That it is, in today's situation, an antidote to Western de-Christianization, filling the gap left by our Godless society. Above all, it is not a sign of female submission to the male, but of Muslim submission to God.

Whatever one may think of his comment, I found it honest and measured.

The link he provided is to a website about Muslim women. Take a look.

Today (May 14), I received a much angrier comment from someone who appears to be a Muslim also. This was in regard to the Miami-Dade County bus posters, that were ultimately allowed to be displayed following a court action:

For a teacher it's sad to see this attitude toward Islam and muslims in France. Would you want us exterminated or abu-graibed?

The two anonymous comments full of lies about Islam make me wonder if they ever read any islamic book.

You'll have to renounce all of your phony baloney freedom of speech and belief, equality of all humans, justice....or you can stick your head in the sand, but rest assured Islam is here to stay.

The slaves you imported from africa and north africa are rising now. Their kids are getting educated so you can't hire them any more to wash dishes and sweep your streets and jam them in concentration living quarters and still treat them like dirt. When they were needed no one complained about that.

When Algier come to my mind here's what stands out. A picture that made me tremble: a dead man with his genitalia in his mouth. was anyone arrested and convicted for that? Nooo. The french live with that refusing even to ecknowledge these crimes while still dreaming about a sahara safari or a beach vacation in Marocco or Tunis.

I have doubts if you grade your students based on their name or their papers?

My answer to him:

@ anonymous

We do not want you exterminated or "abu-graibed", unless you attack us, in which case we have to have prisons for you, just as you would for us. Islam does not belong in the West. It has arrived here because the Western world lost its core beliefs in freedom, including freedom of speech. We are now persecuted by laws if we say anything critical of you. You have said it yourself, the countries who wanted their independence, who fought for their independence, are now rising up in hordes and taking over the West. Revenge is sweet. But because we had LOST our morality and our religious beliefs, we allowed this to happen. We have renounced our freedom of speech for YOU; we have renounced standards in education for YOU; we have renounced the basic notion of self-preservation and are committing suicide for YOU. The notion of "equality" does not mean that all men are the same. Two entirely different cultures may be "equal", but still incompatible.

But you are not to blame except for what you do. WE did this, because we lost the will to survive. No, we won't be hiring the kids to wash dishes. Within one hundred years or sooner we may not be here to hire anybody. You'll have to fend for yourselves.

If it comes to all-out war it is our fault for not sealing the borders, for not forcing minorities living in the West to adopt Western values. We caved in to them. The more we gave them, the more they wanted. Now they are devouring us. Serves us right.

Regarding the other two comments, they are not intelligent. You should not have wasted your time over them.

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25 Comments:

At May 17, 2010 9:17 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

he was commenting on dealt with the notion that the burka was a sign of the failure of the West to maintain decency in its women and girls, hence the inevitability of the appearance of a totally opposing custom


bullshit. the burka is in the west because traitors let in these bunch of barbarians.

GO BACK WHERE YOU CAME FROM!


burka = nazism, terrorism.

 
At May 17, 2010 9:19 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a non-Western Muslim


there aren't western muslims!

lol

 
At May 17, 2010 9:21 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Consequences of Western decadence"


typical muslims, worshippers of a pedophile, says western decadence. lol

 
At May 17, 2010 9:23 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

We see from his observations that the burka is not mandated by Islam, but is rather a choice. That it is, in today's situation, an antidote to Western de-Christianization, filling the gap left by our Godless society. Above all, it is not a sign of female submission to the male, but of Muslim submission to God.

burka is a choice, otherwise women will be spanked or killed.

 
At May 17, 2010 9:30 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

For a teacher it's sad to see this attitude toward Islam and muslims in France. Would you want us exterminated or abu-graibed?


go back where you came.

The two anonymous comments full of lies about Islam make me wonder if they ever read any islamic book.

muslims worshipp a pedophile.

You'll have to renounce all of your phony baloney freedom of speech and belief, equality of all humans, justice....or you can stick your head in the sand, but rest assured Islam is here to stay.

islam is here to go back where it came from!

The slaves you imported from africa and north africa are rising now. Their kids are getting educated so you can't hire them any more to wash dishes and sweep your streets and jam them in concentration living quarters and still treat them like dirt. When they were needed no one complained about that.


islam enslaved more people in the world, islam enslaves people, it's mandated by mohammad the pedophile. islam calls africans raisin. islam castastrated thousand of africans.

When Algier come to my mind here's what stands out. A picture that made me tremble: a dead man with his genitalia in his mouth. was anyone arrested and convicted for that? Nooo. The french live with that refusing even to ecknowledge these crimes while still dreaming about a sahara safari or a beach vacation in Marocco or Tunis.

pedophile worshipper, islam has killed, tortured, murdered, raped, robbed thousands of people for centuries.

I have doubts if you grade your students based on their name or their papers?


typical mohammad worshipper!

 
At May 17, 2010 12:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Arab contact with Black Africa was for one purpose only, plain and simple - slavery. The awful truth is that Arabs ravaged Africa for more than 1000 years before Europeans ever got their hands on black slaves. These black Muslim slaves died from over work, squalor and heat exhaustion - in Arab countries. By contrast, the four million slaves brought to America over the course of 200 years managed to leave the most prosperous group of African descendents on the planet.

Islam does not want to be identified with the Black Muslim movement in America. It is seen as heretical and is not considered part of Islam

 
At May 17, 2010 12:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

MUSLIMS CONVERT AFRICANS IN AFRICA TO MAKE THEM KILL OTHER AFRICANS.

iSLAM IS NAZISM.


Hadith; vol.9:162,163: Muhammad warned that dreams of black women meant disease was forthcoming. Black Muslims today are so uninformed that they don't even understand that Muhammad had many black slaves and called them raisin heads (Hadith vol.1:662, vol.9:256)


Muslims are told that Africans have hearts “grosser than a donkey” (Surah 9:61) . Ishaq: 243 "I heard the Apostle say: ‘Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!' He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks…. Allah sent down concerning him: ‘To those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful punishment." [Surah 9:61] "Gabriel came to Muhammad and said, ‘If a black man comes to you his heart is more gross than a donkey's.'"Yet and still Louis Farrakan and his followers will tell us the lie that Christianity is the white man's religion.


Who really is Allah? The Qur'an (Koran) says that Allah desires to lead people astray (Qur'an Sura 6:39, 126). He does not help those who are led astray by him (Sura 30:29), and Allah desires to use them to populate hell (Sura 32:13).

 
At May 17, 2010 12:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Muhammad posed as an apostle of God. Yet his life is filled with lustfulness (12 marriages and sex with a child, slaves and concubines), rapes, warfare, conquests, and unmerciful butcheries.

 
At May 17, 2010 12:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Islam is a caustic blend of paganism and twisted Bible stories. Muhammad, its lone "prophet", who made no prophecies, conceived his religion to satiate his lust for power, sex, and money. He was a terrorist.

 
At May 18, 2010 6:21 PM, Blogger crusader88 said...

The first commenter seemed spot on. Islam threatens the West, but this would never have happened had the West not lost its vitality and spread pernicious secular materialism the world over.

The modesty of Muslim women's dress puts our own women to shame.

 
At May 18, 2010 7:42 PM, Blogger Robert Marchenoir said...

Genitalia in the mouth : this was one of the favourite punishments inflicted by the Algerian FLN during the independance war against the French. Victims were Algerians (many of them) and French. The FLN inflicted enormous terror and suffering upon its own people in order to create havoc and split Algerians from the French.

This particular Muslim is projecting his own brothers' crimes upon non-Muslims. Typical Muslim behaviour.

Just read what prominent Muslims say on Arab television, as reported on MEMRI. It's mind-boggling. The intellectual level is abysmal. They have no basic knowledge, they don't know how to think. They just ramble on and on saying the most stupid things. You just feel you've been dragged into a mental institution for retarded patients.

 
At May 21, 2010 1:13 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The modesty of Muslim women's dress puts our own women to shame."



no it doesn't. «our own» women don't use those nazi potato sacks!

 
At May 21, 2010 1:14 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

«You'll have to renounce all of your phony baloney freedom of speech and belief, equality of all humans, justice....or you can stick your head in the sand, but rest assured Islam is here to stay.»



look who's talking, the worshipper of the pedophile!

 
At May 21, 2010 1:16 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

«My mother didn't wear Burqa a decade ago, but when I became more devout, my mother started wearing Burqa because she knew in heart that God loves Burqa.»



it sounds like a mother was threatened...

 
At May 21, 2010 1:18 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

«Hence, Burqa is a global phenomenon because Godlessness is a global phenomenon in the globalised world.»



burka is an nazislamic practice just because mohammad was a nazimonster!

 
At May 21, 2010 1:20 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

«Western decadence»


look who's talking the worshipper of the thug, pedophile, rapist, murderer, booter, nazimonster mohammad.

 
At May 21, 2010 1:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

does tiberge now only aproves for publishing what tiberge agrees with?

 
At May 23, 2010 6:51 PM, Blogger tiberge said...

@ anonymous,

In the past week I have been too busy with urgent matters to post. I did have time to post comments, but I chose to withhold a final decision until I could take some time to think about the comments. Most have them have been held, they have not been rejected.

I do not disagree with what they say. I do not like being bombarded on a daily basis with one anonymous comment after another, that are not directly relevant to the purpose of the article entitled Two Comments.

Of course you can take issue with what the two commenters said. But the point of my article was not to criticize Islam - that is done via my regular translations of French articles. The purpose of Two Comments was simply to show what we are up against, AND to take these Muslims SERIOUSLY. To merely hurl insults at them is totally meaningless to them. They are here to stay (at least they believe this for now) and we are most certainly responsible for their being here. If you don't know by now that the West is in a decadent state, you will never know. The rotten leaders you complain about are a symptom, a sign of this decadence. They would not be there if we did not vote them into power. The breakdown of the family, the corrupt and corrupting educational systems, the rise of gay power, the rise of feminism (NOT to be confused with femininity, or with groups that truly attempt to help and guide women), the impotence of our traditional churches, in particular the Catholic Church, these and many other factors contribute the dissolution of our moral fiber, our will to survive, our pride.

It is not irreversible but the longer we wait, the more likely all-out war becomes. Our American army is weakened by feminism and political correctness. How we can fight without resolve, without national pride, I don't know, but in America there is some awakening among the Republicans. I can only hope the same is happening in France. Until then, I will continue to expose OUR defects, not so much those of Islam, because we know what they are. But WHAT ARE WE?

Since I am very pressed for time now, I will post the myriad of anonymous comments, with the repeated plea that YOU have the guts to choose a pseudo and stick to it.

 
At May 23, 2010 6:53 PM, Blogger tiberge said...

@ crusader88 and Robert Marchenoir,

Apologies for the delay in posting your comments. Believe it or not, I thought I HAD published them via my iphone, but for some reason they did not appear. Possibly the flood of anonymous comments distracted me.

 
At May 24, 2010 8:16 AM, Blogger Robert Marchenoir said...

No apologies needed, Tiberge... Validating comments is not a full-time, paid-for job... And doing it through an iPhone is certainly dedication enough.

 
At May 25, 2010 3:15 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

-- 1 --



The Burqa is a tool of dehumanization and control. It is part of the larger Jihad
Banning the Burqa to Protect Women


By Daniel Greenfield

France and Switzerland are proposing a ban on the Burqa, a garment especially for women that covers the head, the body and even the face, leaving its wearer looking like a klansman who forgot to do his laundry. Belgium and the Netherlands are close to banning the Burqa. Lefty movements have responded typically enough by accusing those in favor of the ban of being bigots, arguing that the ban is counterproductive and that all women who wear Burqas do it by choice—because all historical and global evidence to the contrary, “Muslims wouldn’t dream of forcing the Burqa on anyone”.


But what is really behind the Burqa? Islamists have carefully positioned this as a civil rights issue and their lefty allies are trotting along gamely trying to make the case for them. Meanwhile the Islamists have staged confrontations over women with Burqas going to the bank or trying to vote or getting driver’s licenses. All of this is empty theater, when you consider that the promoters of the Burqa are using it as a tool to prevent women from doing any of these things. If you doubt that, overlay the countries where Burqas are worn most frequently with their approach to women’s rights. Those are countries where women are heavily dependent on male guardians for even basic legal and civil transactions. And that is the real point of the Burqa.

A Burqa is a tool for dehumanizing the wearer. For making it difficult for them to have any individual interaction outside the home. This is not a bug, this is a feature. It depersonalizes women who wear it. It makes it difficult for them to work outside the home, to have a conversation with a stranger or to even be seen as an individual. And again, that is the entire point. Burqas are the product of a culture and religion in which women are not supposed to have any function outside the home. In which they are supposed to remain in Purdah, walled off inside the home.

Purdah is the Persian word for the physical imprisonment of the woman in the home behind her curtain. Think of an individual ghetto for the women of every family. That is the essential idea here. Purdah is also the Persian word for the face veil that covers a woman’s face while wearing a Burqa. The word Purdah means curtain. When a woman walks out of the house wearing a Burqa, she is wearing a portable Purdah around herself. She carries the enforced social isolation of it with her.

Deprives women of individual social and legal identities
We use the word “faceless” to describe a condition of enforced anonymity. That is exactly what the Burqa does. It renders an entire gender anonymous. Faceless. And we also connect facelessness to a lack of personal autonomy. Because autonomy is connected to identity. Someone without a face has no identity. Which again is the whole point of creating a mobile Purdah for women using the Burqa. It deprives women of individual social and legal identities, and instead assigns those powers to their male guardians. And since people have to be dehumanized before they can be deprived of their social and legal rights, that is what the Burqa is for.

Islamic cultures that mandate the Burqa also assign a woman’s legal rights to her male guardian. She may only travel or conduct serious financial transactions through her male guardian. Marriages, divorces and sometimes even driving a car—requires a male guardian. This however is not the state of affairs just in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, but also in the heart of Europe and the United States. We simply have not implemented laws enforcing this, which is another reason why the Islamists are pushing the Burqa, to do it for them. The Burqa here once again serves its purpose as mobile Purdah, removing a woman from society even while she still has the law on her side.

 
At May 25, 2010 3:16 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

-- 2 --






Deprives women of individual social and legal identities
We use the word “faceless” to describe a condition of enforced anonymity. That is exactly what the Burqa does. It renders an entire gender anonymous. Faceless. And we also connect facelessness to a lack of personal autonomy. Because autonomy is connected to identity. Someone without a face has no identity. Which again is the whole point of creating a mobile Purdah for women using the Burqa. It deprives women of individual social and legal identities, and instead assigns those powers to their male guardians. And since people have to be dehumanized before they can be deprived of their social and legal rights, that is what the Burqa is for.

Islamic cultures that mandate the Burqa also assign a woman’s legal rights to her male guardian. She may only travel or conduct serious financial transactions through her male guardian. Marriages, divorces and sometimes even driving a car—requires a male guardian. This however is not the state of affairs just in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, but also in the heart of Europe and the United States. We simply have not implemented laws enforcing this, which is another reason why the Islamists are pushing the Burqa, to do it for them. The Burqa here once again serves its purpose as mobile Purdah, removing a woman from society even while she still has the law on her side.

What is really behind all this madness? The answer is fairly simple, and it’s the same answer to much of the problems in the Muslim world. Tribalism. People are not individuals, they are the means of perpetuating the family. Controlling the reproduction of the family requires tightly controlling its women, as this is culturally linked to the purity of the family. Since inbreeding is common, the daughters of a family are likely to be bred back into the family to a cousin or an uncle. And if not they are used as “coin” to buy access to good brides for the sons of the family or even additional wives for the patriarch. And if not, their marriages are still linked to the honor and status of the family. Which means that either way women are a commodity whose key value is in their purity, which is attained through Purdah or isolation from men.

While these ideas certainly did not begin with Islam, the Islamic world follows disjointed religious teachings which mix bits of stolen Christianity and Judaism, with large heapings of tribal customs. The Mohammed of the Koran already firmly relegated women to a second place status, but the Mohammed of the Hadiths made him seem benevolent by comparison. And the Islamists selectively use those Hadiths which fit their agenda of completely disempowering women, which is part of the Saudi funded process of radicalizing Muslims for the global Jihad. Because they view Muslim women as tools in their conquest of the free world.

Yassir Arafat: “The womb of the Arab woman is my strongest weapon”
Yassir Arafat once boasted that, “The womb of the Arab woman is my strongest weapon.” Of course to use a weapon, you must control it. When you turn human beings into tools, you must first dehumanize them. You must think of them as objects for achieving your ends. The mental state of Muslim women in Gaza and the West Bank who teach their young children to blow themselves up in order to murder innocent people aptly demonstrates what such people will be programmed to become. But while the Islamist may deny it in public, to him Paris, London, Amsterdam and New York… are also Gaza.

 
At May 25, 2010 3:17 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

-- 3 --




Islamists will blame tribalism for the state of Muslim women, even as they themselves embrace tribalism in order to segregate and control their own populations. They create their own ghettos and implement purdahs in order to build an army for the conquest of the West. Their leaders see Western individualism as a weakness, but also as a seductive threat to their own people. And the pattern of tribalism remains tattooed on their throbbing brains, which insists that their honor is linked to their ability to control their own women. While of course humiliating Westerners by assaulting and degrading theirs. This is a familiar tribal pattern incorporated into Islam. To dishonor the family of the outsider, while protecting the honor of your own family. To rape foreign women, while clothing your own in Burqas.

This idea goes back to Mohammed and the Koran itself.

O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies that they may thus be distinguished and not molested. (33:59)

The obvious implication is that a woman who wasn’t completely cloaked, would be molested. While a cloaked woman would set herself apart as belonging to a Muslim man, and would therefore not be molested.

The Hadith of Sahih Bukhari makes it clear that the problem was that even high ranking Muslim leaders, such as Umar, a companion of Mohammed and the second Caliph, had trouble leaving women alone… even when those women were Mohammed’s own wives.

The wives of the Prophet used to go to Al-Manasi, a vast open place to answer the call of nature at night. ‘Umar used to say to the Prophet “Let your wives be veiled,” but Allah’s Apostle did not do so.

One night Sauda bint Zam’a the wife of the Prophet went out at ‘Isha’ time and she was a tall lady. ‘Umar addressed her and said, “I have recognized you, O Sauda.” He said so, as he desired eagerly that the verses of Al-Hijab (the observing of veils by the Muslim women) may be revealed. So Allah revealed the verses of “Al-Hijab” (A complete body cover excluding the eyes).

Sahih Bukhari 1.4.148

The psychology of an Umar who waited around to catch sight of women he wasn’t married to and then used the phony self-righteous pretext that because he recognized a woman by her height at night, that women should all be forced to wear veils—speaks volumes about what is still boiling away in the heads of Islamists today.

 
At May 25, 2010 3:20 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

-- 4 --



Their idea of honor is irretrievably linked to control. Control over women to protect family honor and their own self-image. Control over outsiders to maintain the status of family and faith. And a constant expansion of that control is needed to reassure them of their honor. So the Jihad moves forward in the West. Women must cover their faces. And then even one eye. And there is no end to it. Never any end to it.

The Burqa is a tool of dehumanization and control. It is part of the larger Jihad, terrorism, complete subjugation
The Burqa is a tool of dehumanization and control. It is part of the larger Jihad, which is not just about terrorism, but about the complete subjugation of the entire world and everyone in it, to Sharia. Islamic law. In order to reaffirm Islam and the tribal honor of Muslims.

It is unacceptable in the free world because it represents the dehumanization of millions who will be forced to submit to it. And many millions more yet to come. The Islamists began their campaign with the Hijab, bribing and compelling women in Europe and America to wear them. Physical violence is part of the process, particularly in France where girls who refused to wear one were, like the wives of Mohammed’s followers, vulnerable to being “molested”, if one may refer to the Tournade in such delicate terms. The Hijab however was only the preparation for the Burqa, which is the next step in the enforced dehumanization of women.

Nor does this only affect Muslim women. In parts of France, non-Muslim women have learned to begin wearing the Hijab to avoid being molested. As Jewish women were forced to wear veils during their exile among Muslims. Sheikh Hilali, the Grand Mufti of Australia, laid out the stakes quite well during the Sydney rape trials.

“If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats’ or the uncovered meat? The uncovered meat is the problem. If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred.”

The women raped were non-Muslims, but as far as Hilali was concerned, it was their fault for not being in Purdah and wearing their Hijabs.

If Muslims continue to use the Hijab and then the Burqa as a distinguishing mark of women who cannot be molested, as opposed to women who can be molested—as it was in Mohammed’s time—women in general will be intimidated into wearing the Hijab and the Burqa. As under the Taliban, Muslim and non-Muslim women will have a choice between agreeing to give up their rights or facing brutalization.

 
At May 25, 2010 3:20 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

-- 5 --



Those are the real stakes in the Burqa debate. Are women human beings or are they meant only to live in Purdah under the jurisdiction of their male guardians?

The rise of the Burqa means the end of legal rights for women
The rise of the Burqa means the end of legal rights for women. To prove this, one need only look at countries where the preponderance of women wear them. Opponents of the Burqa ban argue that individual abuse should be tackled individually, but they deny that these abuses are part of a greater problem, rather than individual acts. By denying the Islamic oppression of women, they reduce a growing danger to random acts of violence, just as they have done with Islamic terrorism.

Would the European Council be as casual about a religious movement pushing for the resumption of race based slavery? What if the masters brought forth some of their slaves to argue that being slaves is their right if they wish to be slaves. The answer to this, is that slaves cannot be citizens. If one truly wishes to be a slave, a depersonalized person, there are no shortage of countries where such things are normal. The Free World is not the place for it. It is not the place for those who wish to dehumanize women, to justify rape or murder their daughters if they violate their tribal sense of family honor. This is not freedom. It is slavery.

Banning the Burqa confronts a totalitarian ideology bent on dehumanizing women and depriving them of the rights of citizens, in order to centralize power within their own ideology along their old tribal patterns. If Europe allows this, its own women will have to live by those same tribal laws as well, sooner or later. Islam is not a passive ideology, it is expansionistic. It will spread through missionary work, but it will even more eagerly spread through violence. Islamic history makes this fact impossibly to deny. To ban the Burqa is to insist that no totalitarian ideology will impose facelessness on citizens of the nation. To fail to ban it is to abandon republican citizenship for tribal submission.

 

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