"You Will Not Resist Demographic Pressures..."
Here is an indication of what France will miss out on now that Dominique Strauss-Kahn is in "prison" in Tribeca, New York City, USA. Were he in a position to run for president, he would be a fervent advocate for Turkey and for immigration. This round-table discussion was posted at Occidentalis on June 11, 2004. Occidentalis no longer publishes, but fortunately the website is still accessible as a resource (although you may have trouble with the link.)
In the interview, various political topics are discussed by Charles Pasqua, who would become Senator from Hauts-de-Seine, François Bayrou, who would run as a "centrist" in the 2007 presidential election, and Dominique Strauss-Kahn, at the time Socialist deputy from Val-d'Oise, a large suburb north of Paris, where he also served as mayor of Sarcelles. The moderator was Arlette Chabot. Also present were Jean-Marie Le Pen and Philippe de Villiers:
It's the eve of the 2004 European elections. Pasqua and Bayrou express their concern over the European Constitution that would soon be adopted on June 18, and the fact that so few Frenchmen know anything about how the EU operates. DSK intervenes:
DSK - I fully understand all the arguments from those who fear the entry of Turkey in Europe. But I feel it makes no sense to look only at the past or at geography. What you have to keep in mind is the projection that we have of what Europe will be in thirty, forty or fifty years. When you wonder about this, you can very well see that in the world there will be a great American empire in the North with Canada, the United States and perhaps Mexico. There will probably be a great Chinese empire, and considering the pace at which China is developing today, in thirty or forty years it will have reached the standard of living that we have. And there will be a great Indian empire. Will there be a great European empire? We all hope so because we must carry on the European values. What I am certain about is that if there is a great European empire, at that time, it must not stop at the borders that are ours today. Imagine a teacher, in forty years, with pupils in front of him, and a big map in the middle, with a red pen he will say, there, that is the great American empire and he'll make a big circle, then he'll say, that is the great Chinese empire and he'll make a big circle, if he wants to be able… if we want him to be able to say, that is the great European empire, then he will have to make a big circle and there won't be a pen fine enough to pass through the straits of Gibraltar or in the Bosphorus. What I'm trying to say is that in forty or fifty years, if Europe exists, and I think everybody here wants it to… then we will have to have reconstituted the Europe of the Mediterranean. That is the root of our civilization.
Arlette Chabot - So we must not close our doors to Turkey if it changes.
DSK - Turkey still has a way to go to meet the criteria for admission. But the future of Europe, for me, is indeed the Europe of the Mediterranean.
François Bayrou - Hence, the Maghreb too...
DSK - Hence, Morocco no doubt, and other countries…
François Bayrou - Hence, the Maghreb too…
DSK - Absolutely. Absolutely. You will not be able to resist…
François Bayrou - How far do we go?
DSK - I'm going to tell you. I think that from the icebergs in the Arctic to the sands of the Sahara, there is a space which is that of European and Mediterranean responsibility. And you will not resist demographic pressures, you will not resist what we want to construct together, by placing barriers, as Monsieur Le Pen was saying a while ago, or was it Monsieur Villiers, I don't remember, Monsieur Villiers is usually more articulate… it's that we will not resist if we are not capable of assuming our historic responsibility.
Note: The above statement is difficult to understand. At first he says that no one will be able to resist the demographic pressure, even if barriers are built. Then he says (if I understand correctly) that the only way to resist is for Europeans to take their "historic" responsibility. He seems to be saying that there is no way to keep the invaders out, so Europeans have to accept them in a manner that would make up for past crimes. He does not say it that strongly, but I don't know what else he could mean by "historic responsibility."
At this point the article at Occidentalis ends, but there is more of the discussion posted at Maitre Derville.
François Bayrou - Here is a very important difference, you can mark this point. It's a very important difference. There are those who feel that Europe will be an almost indefinite extension and that it will go from the icebergs of the Arctic to Turkey, to the Maghreb. And there are those who feel…"
DSK - That the Arctic is enough.
François Bayrou - That's right. There are those who believe that Europe will not be strong unless it is homogenous, unless it has the capacity to defend the values of civilization that made it, that built it. Europe is an historic tradition, a thousand years old, it is more ancient than nations. The nations came later…"
DSK - Before it was a thousand years old, Monsieur Bayrou, the Roman Empire was on all the shores of the Mediterranean. Saint Augustine was the bishop of Hippo, which is today in Algeria. What is this limitation that you are setting?
Note: It is possible that DSK was baiting Bayrou to admit to an aversion for Islam. It is true that the Roman Empire was in North Africa, but it was the Christianized Roman Empire. Bayrou claims to be a practicing Catholic.
François Bayrou - I believe that the more we extend Europe, this is a real difference, the more we extend Europe, the less it will be capable of asserting itself because it will have fewer common values to defend. And if, in the final analysis, the Americans are gleefully rubbing their hands, they are the most ardent propagandists for Turkey in the EU because they know very well that that will prevent Europe from existing as an equal by their side, making decisions that affect the planet. This is a real difference, not a fear.
DSK - The fear that you mentioned a while back of a great Muslim country in Europe is founded on something else and you know it. The…
Note: Since I only have excerpts of the discussion, I don't know what DSK is referring to here. What is Bayrou's fear founded on? Possibly the loss of national identity? Or civil war? If anyone has an idea or knows where more excerpts of this discussion can be found, please let me know.
François Bayrou - It is not a fear. We are 450 million inhabitants.
DSK - It's a fear. It's a fear…
François Bayrou - The United States are barely 250 million.
DSK - It's a fear. What we have to do is…
François Bayrou - 450 million and 250 million.
Arlette Chabot - I really would like to…
François Bayrou - Turkey is not our history and you know it
DSK - Of course it is.
François Bayrou - How can you maintain before the cameras that Turkey is our history? I have much respect for the Turks, but the least one can say is that it is not our history. You have only to ask Constantinople.
Below, Dominique Strauss-Kahn and François Bayrou.
Labels: Bayrou, DSK, History, National Identity, Turkey
posted by tiberge @ 1:43 AM
29 comments
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29 Comments:
Why dont you post the original French? It seems to me that he was saying that the demographic pressure cannot be resisted - not that it should not be resisted. About Turkey, he is right, it is Europe. The population base is mostly European, Ionians, and they had been secularized in the last century. It is a pity that they have been forced to assume a Muslim - Middle Eastern identity. BTW the population of the USA is not 250 million.
Wellwellwell
DSK's standpoint seems quite clair. As does Bayrou's. Very good point, Tiberge
The question to which we still have no answer, is why DSK ended up in his "situation" at this point in time.
"François Bayrou - How far do we go?
DSK - I'm going to tell you. I think that from the icebergs in the Arctic to the sands of the Sahara, there is a space which is that of European and Mediterranean responsibility."
Just a note about the Arctic
Recently Medvedev got a larger part than the dividing line otherwise would have left him, in the Barents Sea
What was going on prior to the signing of this agreement with Norway, and why was Norway left with the lesser part?
Who was pulling the strings?
then we will have to have reconstituted the Europe of the Mediterranean. That is the root of our civilization.
HIS civilization is from the arabian peninsula!
DSK - Before it was a thousand years old, Monsieur Bayrou, the Roman Empire was on all the shores of the Mediterranean. Saint Augustine was the bishop of Hippo, which is today in Algeria. What is this limitation that you are setting?
DSK IS A AN IGNORAMUS!
the Americans are gleefully rubbing their hands, they are the most ardent propagandists for Turkey in the EU because they know very well that that will prevent Europe from existing as an equal by their side, making decisions that affect the planet.
exactly!
american rating agencies have been atacking european countries!
François Bayrou - Turkey is not our history and you know it
DSK - Of course it is.
DSK must be talking about HIS history!
I think the fact that DSK was taken out of action is proof that God exists, that He is benevolent and cares about the survival of France.
: )
To all,
I hope to have more to say on this post later. I'm in a rush right now. For, the record, DSK actually is a Turk, that is his Jewish origins are Turkish. He is, according to Bernard Antony, a Khazar, descending from the Khazars, a Turkish group that converted to Judaism in the 6th (?) century. Antony says he used to boast about his Turkish roots.
@ J
I don't disagree with your comment entirely. There was a moment when I wasn't sure of what he meant. He said "You will not resist the demographic pressure", then he said "it's that we will not resist if we are not capable of assuming our historic responsibility" and it does indeed sound as if he is implying that we will be overrun UNLESS we do something about it - namely assume our historic responsibility. This would imply that he feels that we SHOULD do something. However, this interpretation does not hold up at all, in light of the rest of the article. Nowhere in this article is there any indication from DSK that we should close our borders, deport illegals, stop building mosques, stop collaborating in the various and numerous ways our leaders and our clergy have been collaborating. No one could ever assume from this article that he wishes we would do something about the "demographic pressures". Everything points to his acceptance of the reality of massive immigration and of Turkey in the EU.
My only question is what did he mean by "historic responsibility?" In terms of the Maghreb at least, he could have meant reparation for past "crimes" committed by Europe when it colonized Africa. In terms of Turkey, though, what did he mean? Did he anywhere imply that it is our historic responsibility to convert Turkey to Christianity? Of course not. Instead he chided Bayrou for his fear of Islam.
As for Turkey being European, it's like saying that India is British. At one time, yes. But Turkey was conquered and, unlike India, is still in the hands of the conquerors. Europe would have to rid Turkey of the Turks, reconvert everyone to Greek Orthodoxy and give Eastern Turkey back to the Armenians, etc... THEN, we could say OK Turkey is once again the Byzantine Empire, Anatolia is once again European, let's admit it to the EU.
You know that won't happen. Even in the past, before 1453, Europe was indifferent to the cries for help from the Byzantine Greeks who saw what was coming. Even then Europe collaborated with the Turks out of inertia and an unwillingness to fight.
What DSK wanted was a "great European empire" that included North Africa and Turkey and that was Socialist, atheist, multiculturalist, globalist, etc... and all the terms we use today to denote the forces that are working to bring about an end to the European nations.
When was Turkey ever European? Ethnic ties may an indication, but history and culture both count as well. The Hittite civilisation was not exactly the same as its closest neighbour: Greece (which then had a foothold in Asia Minor). In fact, these were entirely different civilisations. The Hittites were a truculent civilisation revolving around a warrior caste and infinitely more violent as a society than Greece ever was, with the possible exception of Sparta. The Greeks invented and honed philosophy, pioneered mathematics, boasted the first historian (Herodotus), laid the foundations for modern democracy (although you may find some seeds in Sumer). Athenian democracy was far more advanced than it is usually given credit for; it equated citizenship with ethnicity, and was in a way a nation-state with its own brand of Greek identity.
As for St Augustine of Hippo, this is a ridiculous point to make since North Africa was then a stronghold of Christianity. Egypt boasted the first church proper, and had a lively Christian community (Eastern Christians as they came to be known after many disputes with their Western counterparts, paving the way for Eastern Orthodoxy). Mr Strauss-Kahn seems to be ignorant of the fact Egypt and North Africa (and Zoroastrian Persia) were overrun by Mohammedan hordes as of the sixth century. The Mohammedans destroyed ancient civilisations and replaced them with Islamic obscurantism. St Augustine would not have recognised his land centuries after he died.
Finally, if we do not resist, we are indeed worthy of annihilation. Mr Strauss-Kahn obviously has no guts for fighting (involving other causes than raping cleaning maids), perhaps this is because he does fully identify with our civilisation, for I know not of the civilisation he constantly mentions. This is irrelevant by now since he is unlikely ever to run for president.
"For, the record, DSK actually is a Turk, that is his Jewish origins are Turkish. He is, according to Bernard Antony, a Khazar, descending from the Khazars, a Turkish group that converted to Judaism in the 6th (?) century. Antony says he used to boast about his Turkish roots."
khazar jews are racists to spehardi jews.
About Turkey, he is right, it is Europe. The population base is mostly European, Ionians, and they had been secularized in the last century.
TURKS AREN'T EUROPEAN!!!
My only question is what did he mean by "historic responsibility?" In terms of the Maghreb at least, he could have meant reparation for past "crimes" committed by Europe when it colonized Africa.
huh?
colonization was a way to stop the islamic pirates from kidnapping europeans, islamic pirates attacked europe since the 7th century until 19th century, pirates only stopped during the french colonization! there's more north africans nowadays in france than french people in north africa during the whole colonization period. france was in algeria for 130 years. islam has occupied european territory for centuries. GIVE BACK CONSTANTINOPLE. TERRORIST PEDOPHILE CULT!
"khazar jews are racists to spehardi jews."
khazars and turks are asiatic, sephardis are caucasians.
I don't know enough to be authoritative on the subject, but I thought that Sephardic Jews were Semites, not Caucasians. In the divisions I have studied, the white race is subdivided into Indo-European, Semitic and Caucasian, according to language differences. The Jewish people are Semitic, but obviously, not all of them are, if a group of Turks converted. The Caucasians (not in the geographical sense, but in the linguistic sense) are few in number today - possibly, the Georgians, the Basques, and a few others. However, as I said, I'm not an authority.
Dominique Strauss-Kahn, leading the West in its death march.
Constantinople had been abandoned by Europe and delivered to the Seljuk Turks, and it cannot be reconverted to Greek Ortodoxy. Turkey is a conquested European country, and every one of the comments above emphasizes the un-Europeanness of Turkey. No one thinks of reconquering Turkey and rejoining it to Europe. DSK's vision - and he has a vision - is a large European empire that includes those lost parts. He is not talking about Greek Orthodoxy because that is very difficult to change, but a socialist secular Europe that is feasible and acceptable to Turks and other conquered European areas.
l dont like DSK but as far as l am concerned he is innocent of maid rape until proven guilty. l do however have a very big problem with socialism - so l also have a problem with him. As far as his (and others) readings of history go it is obvious history doesnt interest him much. Without the Greeks and the Romans there is no Europe. As far as mohomad was concerned Constantinople was Rome. He set a great value on conquering Rome. Europe is Rome. We are all Romans, and Crusaders, and islam hates us. Most Westerners are oblivious of these matters, if they acknowlege that islam hates non islam they relegate the hatred to a kind of historical overhang. The hatred is real and living in the heart of all muslims.
Now is the time for the Westerners to forge weapons and turn to meet our foe.
Constantinople had been abandoned by Europe...
constantinople wasn't abandoned, the turks robed it!
dsk should go back to khazarstan. the turks should go back to turkstan, turks should give constantinople back to greece and bulgaria.
I think the fact that DSK was taken out of action is proof that God exists, that He is benevolent and cares about the survival of France.
: )
how many more DSKs are there???
"how many more DSKs are there???"
A. Too many.
«constantinople wasn't abandoned, the turks robed it!»
they've been nicking cyprus.
Two examples why Turkey should never be allowed into European Union.
1. The 1955 Greek Pogroms-Turkish mob attack and killed Greeks across Turkey.
2.Neo-Ottoman aspirations. Reiterated in the Wikileaks cable from the mid 90's were the AK party member (sorry can't remember who) stated their desire was "to take back Andalusia and avenge the defeat at the siege of Vienna in 1683."
Both events are too recent in the scheme of history to be overlooked or dismissed as 'in the past'. As the cliche goes, actions speak louder then words, and these two examples do not reflect a pro-European mindset at all for Turkey. Not to mention the Cypress issue, which again only strengthens the point that not everyone in Turkey sees themselves as Europeans, but as crusading islamist and view the EU as their gateway into a possible Islamic Hegemony of Europe via dominance through population numbers.
turkey doesn't recognize de armenian genocide.
in the balkans muslim killed non muslim for organ trafficking, the european comission is taking a look at it... IS EUROPEAN UNION PROTECTING THE WITNESSES???
"to take back Andalusia and avenge the defeat at the siege of Vienna in 1683."
those f*cking bastards invaders crucified thousands of people in the peninsula. grrrrrrr!
this is islam:
Iraq: Christian tortured, mutilated and murdered
His body was mutilated. His head was nearly severed off. He was tortured before he was executed, according to the Kirkuk police. His eyes were gouged out, his ears were cut off and his faced was skinned. There also were signs of dog bites on the body.
Mr. Jacob is survived by his wife and three children.
He was an Assyrian construction worker.
His name was Ashur Yacob Issa and he had been kidnapped. His family was asked for a $61.500 ransom, a sum they couldn't pay at all.
Photo found at AINA.org.
2010: every rape in Oslo committed by followers of Muhammed
Defenders of Islam call it a "religion of peace" but Norwegian women are learning that Islam is the religion of rape. According to an amazing police report released there this month, every single solved case of assault-rape in the country in 2010 was carried out by a Muslim immigrant.
The report was cited by an official Norwegian television station. According to the report there was a total of 186 of known rape cases in 2010. These fall into various categories, the largest one of which is assault-rape, carried out by sheer physical force, of which there were 86 cases. In 83 of these cases the perpetrator could be identified by the victim. In all 83, the attacker was described as having "non-western appearance," a laundered euphemism for Muslim immigrants from Africa, the Middle East, or Asia.
TAKE OFF THE MINARETS!
http://www.hellotravel.com/sites/default/files/hagia-sophia-istanbul.jpg
GIVE IT BACK, PEDOPHILE TERRORIST CULT!
DSK can have his meditteranean Europe with all those great countries in Northern Africa, Asia Minor and the Levantine region. He just has to leave Northern Europe out of it. France Why would they join this union? They'd be basicly playing the worked-and-taxed-to-death Boxer role in Animal Farm to DSK's pig ruler.
I don't disagree with J (except that Turkey is part of Europe -- it isn't) and DSK's point that demographic pressures are hard to manage. Malthus believed England would be swamped with proles and in his time it seemed as an avalanche unable to be stopped. In the end things changed suddenly and birth rates fell, never to recover much since.
Demographic dynamics will change again. Low average birth rates say as much as this: many people are not having children of too few, while others have a lot -- they're just a small minority. For now. These people will replace those having few or no children in the end.
This DSK guy is interesting in many ways. He should be studied intensively, he seems as a textbook narcissist, though a high-functioning one; decisive, vain, entitled, mean, self-centered, succesful. A character study and life portrait of the man I'd read with great interest. Most narcissists don't get as far as DSK did. He lead the IMF and almost became président of the second largest EMU country.
DSK can have his meditteranean Europe with all those great countries in Northern Africa, Asia Minor and the Levantine region. He just has to leave Northern Europe out of it.
HE JUST HAS TO LEAVE ALL OF EUROPE OUT OF IT!
Erdogan only quite recently talked to his Turkish colony in Germany, in Turkish, encouraging the Turks in Germany not to integrate, but stay true to their Turkish culture.
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